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Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthood PostSat Jul 06, 2013 10:44 am Offline
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Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:42 am2913East Hartford, CT
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Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostFri Aug 02, 2013 1:59 pm Offline
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Tue May 24, 2011 1:49 pm3867In range of my WiFi
Reminds me of the titles of nobility prime-ministers tend to get on leaving office. It seems to be a trend to find some magic after the guy dies (or possibly retires, now that's an option again) to justify sanctifying them, without any devil's advocates to challenge it now that position has gone away. Like printing money leads to inflation, it could dilute the meaning of saint if every previous pope ends up getting them as a matter of course.
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Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostSat Aug 03, 2013 9:04 am Offline
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Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:53 pm302
I don't like to talk religion on this board; my post then is about procedure:

As a non-Catholic, I don't understand the process of becoming a Saint. Oh sure, I can look it up on wiki or merely google it. Nevertheless, I'll ask in this thread as this is the thread devoted to this subject.

Is there a "triage" system here? Does Pope John Paul II, because he was a Pope, gets the fast track on that reason alone, or are there miracles he performed that put him on the fast track? I'm not judging here - certainly not. I'm just asking as I don't get it. Example: for years, I heard about the possibility of Father Junipero Serra who helped create the California Missions in the 1700s having very good chances of becoming a Saint. Is Father Serra still eligible and in the running for Sainthood?

I ask as Father Serra lived hundreds of years ago; Pope John Paul II lived during the 20th Century (not too long ago). Shouldn't someone who lived hundreds of years ago move up in the procedure for becoming a Saint rather than someone recent?

As a non-Catholic this is confusing to me. Anyone?

By the way, whomever the Catholic Church says is a Saint: please accept my congrats and the congrats of this whole board! It's exciting news when a new Saint is announced :D
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostSat Aug 03, 2013 10:44 am OfflineBoard Moderator
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1st miracle, he became Blessed. He gets a local feast day. For John Paul II, it would be a Polish feast day.

2nd miracle, he becomes Saint. His feast day will be universal and can be celebrated anywhere in the Church.

These miracles have to be free of any doubt and scientific explanation. They must be shown to have come about as a result of intercessory prayer by Karol Wojtyła (JPII). Which is to say, the person prays to JPII to intercede for him. JPII, in turn, prays to God on behalf of the person. A miracle would be proof that JPII is in heaven and interceded for him, and that God answered the prayer.

We Catholics believe in prayer in numbers, heh. :)

The miracles can take centuries to authenticate, or it can take just a few years, and they don't necessarily take place within a few years of each other.
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Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostSat Aug 03, 2013 2:52 pm Offline
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Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:53 pm302
Thanks, Will. That makes a lot of sense as to the procedure. More than I would have learned studying wiki or google search results. I appreciate it, as do others on the board I'm sure :)
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostTue Aug 06, 2013 11:35 am Offline
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Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:31 am4
What John Paul II made, was absolutely unique on a global scale and on the scale of the time. He literrally defeated the communism

Whilst there irrationalism and stupidity prevailed and were expanding fast, he was able to recognize his mission which he accomplished with a top precision. His every move had a reason and a particular result. Every word he said, noone could ignore.

Saying he was the man of many talents is like saying nothing. He was a very well educated, intelligent, sensitive academic lecturer and simoultanously athletic rower and tough man from mountains. He was doing so many things in his life, that his high speed thinking, the communists just couldn't keep up with. He acted like an engineer.

The value of what he did is so significant to the world, that it is in the interest of all of the people to highlight that, so they don't forget, what is right and what leads to nowhere.

Making him Saint is not the point here. If he was a sciencist, he would get a Noble prize, if he was an actor, he would get Oscar to stay highlited. As he was a priest, he becomes Saint. It is about cultivation of the idea.

Someone said, that hell is a place where there is no logic. So when someone comes into from the outside and takes you out, you are able to name him Saint.
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostWed Aug 07, 2013 11:07 pm Offline
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:55 am563
tompark wrote:
What John Paul II made, was absolutely unique on a global scale and on the scale of the time. He literrally defeated the communism

Mwahaha! Dude, this is literally the dumbest bullcrap I have ever encountered on this board. EVER.

Congratulations!

tompark wrote:
he would get a Noble prize

Noble men get the Noble Prize for their outstanding nobility, don't they? You should probably get one as well.

zzyzx 2 wrote:
By the way, whomever the Catholic Church says is a Saint: please accept my congrats and the congrats of this whole board! It's exciting news when a new Saint is announced

Speak for yourself, please. If you want my opinion, Mr. Wojtyla is in hell right now having sex with his beloved Queen Spider, though I hope it won't be too long before he is joined by the Catholic church, Christianity, and the Abrahamic religions altogether.
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostWed Aug 07, 2013 11:29 pm Offline
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Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:51 pm4292San Jose, California
zzyzx 2 wrote:
By the way, whomever the Catholic Church says is a Saint: please accept my congrats and the congrats of this whole board! It's exciting news when a new Saint is announced :D


Seriously, speak for yourself. I couldn't give a smaller fuck who becomes a "saint" in that wicked cult. Sainthood is just a fancy word used to describe the people who've done the best job promoting the Catholic Church's ongoing attempt at controlling the world and silencing those who don't believe what they do. "Exciting" my ass. I'd rather watch paint dry. And stop pretending like you give a fuck. You don't even claim to be Catholic. I know plenty of self-identifying Catholics who don't even give a shit. You just pretend to care so people won't see you as the crazy cunt you are. Keep your trap shut.
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostThu Aug 08, 2013 4:29 am Offline
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Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:31 am4
VACOOLA wrote:
tompark wrote:
What John Paul II made, was absolutely unique on a global scale and on the scale of the time. He literrally defeated the communism.

Mwahaha! Dude, this is literally the dumbest bullcrap I have ever encountered on this board. EVER.

Congratulations!


You seem not to know history and even geography at all. At all!

VACOOLA wrote:
tompark wrote:
he would get a Noble prize

Noble men get the Noble Prize for their outstanding nobility, don't they? You should probably get one as well.


This is "bullcrap". Nobel men get the Nobel Prize for outstanding achievement in science, literature, or their contribution to society and humanity. The Nobel Prize name comes from it's inventor's name Alfred Nobel, dude.

Congratulations!

VACOOLA wrote:
zzyzx 2 wrote:
By the way, whomever the Catholic Church says is a Saint: please accept my congrats and the congrats of this whole board! It's exciting news when a new Saint is announced

Speak for yourself, please. If you want my opinion, Mr. Wojtyla is in hell right now having sex with his beloved Queen Spider, though I hope it won't be too long before he is joined by the Catholic church, Christianity, and the Abrahamic religions altogether.


Now I'm convinced you talk about things, about which you have nothing to say.
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostThu Aug 08, 2013 8:42 am Offline
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:52 am2270Croatia (SE Europe)
VACOOLA wrote:
tompark wrote:
What John Paul II made, was absolutely unique on a global scale and on the scale of the time. He literrally defeated the communism.

Mwahaha! Dude, this is literally the dumbest bullcrap I have ever encountered on this board. EVER.

Congratulations!

Well... I don't know if it's the dumbest, but it comes pretty close. He/she definitely deserves a reward.

tompark wrote:
You seem not to know history and even geography at all. At all!

Lol! And you do? Please, explain how Wojtyla defeated a political ideology that still exists.
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostThu Aug 08, 2013 9:26 am Offline
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Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:31 am4
Mamont wrote:
VACOOLA wrote:
tompark wrote:
What John Paul II made, was absolutely unique on a global scale and on the scale of the time. He literrally defeated the communism.

Mwahaha! Dude, this is literally the dumbest bullcrap I have ever encountered on this board. EVER.

Congratulations!

Well... I don't know if it's the dumbest, but it comes pretty close. He/she definitely deserves a reward.

tompark wrote:
You seem not to know history and even geography at all. At all!

Lol! And you do? Please, explain how Wojtyla defeated a political ideology that still exists.


Yes I do, even from my own experience. You are an ignorant. His role in overthrowing of communism was crucial. It is not about political ideology, but a political reality.

I found this article, which I'm sure, would mean nothing to you.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... 5Apr5.html
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostThu Aug 08, 2013 10:56 am OfflineBoard Moderator
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Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:57 am17368Hollywood, CA
He may have driven it from power, but it's still around.
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Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostThu Aug 08, 2013 1:35 pm Offline
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:52 am2270Croatia (SE Europe)
It is ignorant to say one man was responsible for overthrowing communism in Eastern Europe, when it's obvious that the system was unsustainable and would eventually ate itself.
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostThu Aug 08, 2013 7:54 pm Offline
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:55 am563
It's absolutely insane to give the Pope any credit for the collapse of the Soviet regime considering it was the Dalai Lama and he alone who single-handedly defeated the Soviets in a blink of an eye using his secret spiritual superpowers.

Come on, Catholics! Go ahead and prove me wrong.
Re: Pope Francis clears way for Pope John Paul II's sainthoo PostFri Aug 09, 2013 6:42 am Offline
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Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:31 am4
Big-Will wrote:
He may have driven it from power, but it's still around.


The USSR collapsed, it has no power. I believe, it will not come back. Are you aware of how big it was? There are still backward countries, but the dynamic developement of the rest of the world, I believe will be gradually crowding them out.

Mamont wrote:
It is ignorant to say one man was responsible for overthrowing communism in Eastern Europe, when it's obvious that the system was unsustainable and would eventually ate itself.


Of course, not one man was responsible for overthrowing communism in Eastern Europe. But he played A key role. What would Solidarnosc and Lech Walesa do without him?

The system was unsustainable in direct proportion to what people undestood and were able to do about it. Whereas the ideology could be alive until today. In North Korea people still don't know the Internet. They have Kwangmyong (?!) instead, in 2013. How long would anyone wait eventually?

VACOOLA wrote:
It's absolutely insane to give the Pope any credit for the collapse of the Soviet regime considering it was the Dalai Lama and he alone who single-handedly defeated the Soviets in a blink of an eye using his secret spiritual superpowers.


The regime was stupifying the people, and the Pope was educating them and motivating them. It wasn't in a blink of an eye, but it was a labour. Secret spiritual superpowers had nothing to do with that.
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