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Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostSun Oct 07, 2012 8:54 am Offline
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Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:11 pm78
Vegetagurl wrote:
The Honey Boo Boo bit had me on the floor; it was absolutely hilarious. :lol:

Great episode!

I am missing Kenny this season, though. :unhoodedkenny:
Maybe he's off doing Mysterion business?

Yeah, Honey Boo Boo and the "Sketti" wrestling had me in stitches too. The hillbilly music was a nice touch as well.
Don't worry. I think Kenny will be heard from pretty soon, let's hope!
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostSun Oct 07, 2012 6:41 pm Offline
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Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:32 am2732So Cal
If they are still going to make a Halloween episode this season I wonder if they are going to use the Honey Boo Boo joke that was in that little clip, now that they already poked fun of the show. Hope we get that long-awaited Halloween eppy!
I love: Stan, Butters, Cartman, Sharon.

I ship: Stan/Cartman <3

Stan: MMOOMM!!
Sharon: What is it honey? (gasp!) My baby's killed again!
Haa, I love that line.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostSun Oct 07, 2012 10:34 pm Offline
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Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:34 pm635Illinois, USA
Finally rewatched and this is a mediocre episode - not terrible, but not great.

I already said what I like about it, but I also would like to say only one of the things I disliked: the entire core lesson about shamelessness and obesity is absolute bullsh*t.

Fat people are not this group of assholish, selfish people who intentionally stuff themselves and expect others to clean up after them, then get rascals and get even worse. I've had issues with fat people, but there's plenty of fat people who are really fine old people, and I feel this was a stupid attack because they made no allowance for exceptions to the rule - there was all negative portrayals and no positivity passed around at all.

Now before you go, SHUT UP JOHN YOU'RE A STUPID CYNICAL assh*le, I posted pages back a ton of positive thoughts on this episode. I think I'm allowed *one* complaint.
I don't have any petty self-centered sh*t to link to right now :o
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostWed Oct 10, 2012 4:58 am Offline
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Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:11 am2
JVM,

I agree that this episode wasn't that great. But I found it more entertaining than the previous one, Sarcastaball. Show's been running for about 16 years and it's showing signs of waning in quality. I feel the past four to five seasons have been hit and miss.

I also agree with your assessment of the negative message regarding fat people. I actually started watching Here Comes Honey Boo Boo after watching this episode and in general I don't see anything wrong with it, especially if you compare it to other reality TV shows like American Idol, The Bachelor, Jersey Shore, etc. Although I generally don't pay reality TV much mind there is a spectrum of quality out there.

The show is about a family that lives in Georgia and they support Alana's career in beauty pageants. But you also get to see what their life is like. The show has addressed the family's own concerns with weight and health. It's not like these folks are unconscious about themselves and how they appear to the rest of the world. They just have a healthy dose of self-confidence and pride.

Personally I am against beauty pageants b/c of what they represent. That's my main issue with the family. And while the family is larger there's no indication that they suffer severe health problems. I'm a little concerned with Alana and her mother's weight, but again, I'm pretty sure they're aware of themselves. They don't need a cartoon and a world of ignorant on-lookers saying this or that and they probably don't care.

I like the family. I can relate to them. And I don't like the way they were portrayed on South Park. Esp the attacks made to Alana who is just seven or eight years old. I don't know how you can feel big about yourself making fun of a little girl.

I don't see anything inherently shameful in being fat or any healthy size. Health is not limited to just one size and quite frankly all this episode did was promote fatphobia. It used a relatively positive model of fat acceptance and body acceptance, i.e. Adele, and gave her words to an ignorant bigot like Cartman. If anything it would have been nice to see a rendering of Adele represent herself on this show and take Cartman down a peg or two. But it seems like part of "lowering the bar" is being fat and just fine with being fat.

I know that this is standard for what the SP creative team produces. But I can still enjoy the media and be critical of it at the same. One episode I really enjoy is Bebe's Boobs. But after viewing it a couple of times I'm a little disturbed by the implication that Bebe has to suppress her body's appearance in order for things to return to normal. It required that she change rather than the boys realizing that there was something wrong with their judgement of the girls in class. I don't see why their friendship with Bebe couldn't have resumed.

But less about that episode. Before this episode I always thought TLC meant "Tender Loving Care" rather than "The Learning Channel."
Last edited by kinokoko on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostWed Oct 10, 2012 12:31 pm Offline
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Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:07 pm2
First Post:
-----------------
So if I am breaking any rules I missed, I am truly sorry in advance. (and Please let me know!!) I am the DIY artist, deadpopstar & have watched South Park from the start. I, like SP, mock many things; but mock Myself as well. :) FINALLY, as you can see: I write a LOT. If you do not wish to read this, instead of pointing out I write a lot (because obviously I have NO idea of that..Sarcastiball!!) or being rude (tl;dr ...why are you letting me know this??), ect: here is a Simple Solution: SKIP THE POST!! Just easily scroll on past it!! Thanks!! :)

Before I say my thoughts on this episode, I have a question. Please don't flame me for asking this question, I Admit, I am ignorant with as to "uncensored" means Exactly, in the Newer episodes; like this one. I DO realize it means that the swear words are un-beeped, But:
Does it mean Actual Shots/Extra &/or Extended Scenes/ect are ALSO included in the Uncensored episodes?

Thanks in advance for anyone whom could answer this for me.

--------------------------

As far as the newer episodes, some people not liking them as much as older ones. Well, in MY opinion (it is ALWAYS just peoples opinions anyway) it depends on the episode and/or season. I thought the Tweek episodes/character/season(s) were the WORST; but others Love his character/those episodes.
As far as THIS current season, I enjoy all the episodes (I actually ENJOY EVERY SP Episode, there is at Least ONE LINE/joke/ect that I love, even in an episode I pretty much 99.9% dislike) some more than others. This episode I happened to Love.
I loved the commentary on the "bar in current society"/politics (the debates/Michelle Obama referenced/entertainment we all consume/ect) & how every year, much of it DOES lower in aspects of politics, entertainment, Reality, ect.

The entertainment showed, the LOWEST: Honey Boo Boo. (spoofing AWFUL exploitive reality tv, specifically with CHILDREN & the irresponsibe parent(s), such as Teen Mom/ect). And the HIGHER form of entertainment. (depending on if you are a James Cameron fan/Avatar: specifically is what they were driving at..) The whole point of James Cameron, was that he is a director who is ALWAYS is trying to raise the bar, at Any cost (literally with money) in his films; Avatar being the most recent example. (thought, iMo, The Wachowski Brothers set the bar in action/huge blockbuster films to this day, FAR more than Avatar did; with The Matrix. DESPITE them not doing much of ANYTHING else sense that set a bar.. Though I loved V For Vendetta..Speed Racer, no comment. WHAT else have they did?? ha..) His (Camron) insanity of trying to search for a LITERAL BAR in the ocean, was just simply spoofing his eccentric image & what I said above about his film making. A QUICK example of a HIGHER form of entertainment mentioned in the episode was Cartman's (despite him missing the POINT; making the joke hysterical) rant to Kyle about Adele; who I personally think makes great art.
Though I also think it is OVERRATED. And my taste in music & ALL art mediums is BEYOND diverse: I like Adele, but also love Slayer, Tupac, Lady GaGa, Bright Eyes, The Rolling Stones, Nirvana, Breathe Carolina, Muse, Ellie Goulding, Billie Holiday, Nine Inch Nails, Frank Ocean, ect; ECT. I love Every genre, all time periods; it just depends on the specific artist & then the specific LP/song/ect. And I am GLAD SP has spoofed many of the artists I mentioned liking as examples! I realize Mick Jagger SHOULD STOP, Years ago should have!! I realize Lady Gaga gets absurd in her art at times. And I REALLY am hoping they say something about Frank Ocean (whos art I LOVE!!) & how I think him revealing his bisexuality a few days prior to his debut album being released..um, yeah: That had NOTHING to do about selling records. ha. (Sarcastiballism!!)
The POINT is, we ALL have out own Personal Taste in all kinds of Art, but things like Honey Boo Boo/Teen Mom (& Teen Mom TWO??! PLEASE dont tell me there has been more..) in my opinion are NOT GOOD ART at all; they are awful swill that the masses slurp up, are conditioned destructively by & I believe THAT was their whole point in that aspect of the episode. Avatar, like the film or not, I do not feel destructively conditioned the Millions who saw it; the HIGHER form of entertainment.

Then in REALITY, the whole overweight people on rascals thing, happens to be something I PERSONALLY have been complaining about (at Walmart specificaly..) for YEARS, in the way Stan, Kyle, ect are complaining. I had a job for about 8-9 years, a HUGE company I will not name because it MAY not be legal, idk; but my job was sales. That was my vague title, written as my job description. What it entitled was me going to various stores who carried the product & do a number of things. Because I majored in art, I was the guy who used my creativity to set up displays, put up signs/ads/ect also in "artistic" ways in the various stores. I also made sure others were stocking the product, it was being delivered properly,ect. The POINT is Walmart (the HUGE Supercenters mostly, as there were only a couple "normal" ones left; this was YEARS ago..) was 50-60% of the stores I did this work at. I had to push out HUGE pallets/carts/ect of product to do my job in these very huge/busy/crowded places. SO OFTEN (at least 5-6 times a week) would some overweight person on a rascal be RUDE TO ME, yell "get out of my way!!," (I SWEAR!! Just like the episode!) or just generally be in my way: FULLY AWARE they were, in total apathy.
So I began to Really Become Annoyed (to put it nicely) with these people whom had no regard for me & my work, but also EVERYONE ELSE (shoppers, vendors, employees, ect) as well. I KNOW FOR A FACT that ~ALL~ of these Countless people DID NOT have the RARE Medical Condition of obesity & they were LAZY, FAT, RUDE..um Cartamans!! Ha! So this episode hit VERY close to home with me.

FIRST, to be clear, I have TOTAL 100% sympathy for anyone who has an ACTUAL MEDICAL OBESITY CONDITION (of ANY type actually..) to where their weight TRULY is not within there control.
BUT this is NOT a Common Condition; it is VERY RARE. (you are online: research it/look at Valid statistics/ect) MOST of the people, whom Most ARE very rude (as the episode exaggerated in Every case; the rudeness..but as I said above: I HAVE SEEN that exaggeration, in Reality!! I'm SURE some others here have as well..) and their weight IS FULLY within their control/NOT a medical condition at ALL.

But most just accept it; apathetic as THEY THEMSELVES ARE to others in the stores!! *head explodes, brb* MANY Doctors just "accept" it & suggest Bogus diets (that will NEVER work) & Worthless medications, intended for the FEW RARE people who have the condition/or just..um, Bogus Medications. To be FAIR, some DO their job & prescribe EXERCISE/REAL Diet plans!! But the others just wish to get the appointment over FAST, hurry & get the F out of the building, into their Lexus, get on the $800 iphone to make calls about how to make more money they Do Not Need. This WHY I am So Glad South Park, spoofs it/makes me THINK & LAUGH; otherwise I would become beyond depressed about the realities of this world/society/ect. that they ALWAYS are spoofing something different on Some Level(s). (geniusly or poorly; depending on personal opinion of the episode)

So overall in this episode, I thought it did a Wonderful Job at showing these various things (& others I didn't mention) all within 20 minutes; as the show Always Does. Like I said, I feel even THE WORST episode ever, has at Least ONE funny line/joke. Anyway, this is all just MY opinions. I think this new season has had some episodes that were not that great, yet Still, did have things that make it Worth Watching.

Aside from a couple yearly award shows: I do not watch ANY TV; South Park is the exception. I DO watch films of all diverse (like the music example before; I am diverse with ALL the mediums of art I enjoy/also practice myself) kinds & I watch CERTAIN Pay Channel series; as those series have production value/story/actors&actresses/ect on par (some BETTER!!) with actual films. I view them as giant films chopped up into hour increments; as Nobody will sit in a theater for 12 (or whatever..) hours straight.

Anyway, over the years, to now; South Park has had its ups & downs..in my opinion; it is all Just Opinion. ha. I Loved this specific episode!!
I TRULY wish there WAS a literal bar we Could set, to STOP how sickly stupid & mindless entertainment has become & how we ALL are conditioned (whether we know it or not: Desensitizing WORKS. I have been in some aspects, I admit it) to just go along with how awful things are in REALITY. As: ART MIRRORS REALITY. This is WHY South Park's DEAD ON commentary of everything in this world; Is genius & why it IS my exception to watching television. :)

~ @deadpopstar

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Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostWed Oct 10, 2012 1:36 pm Offline
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Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:32 am2732So Cal
In my opinion Honey Boo Boo is worse than American Idol. (The majority) are people who are talented and can finally catch a break and have their music be heard. Of course it has its flaws like teens voting for their favorite 'hot guy' but it's not too terrible. Although the judges for next season may make me not watch at all.

HBB is about some hick family with weight issues and beauty pageants. It's almost disgusting as I am against beauty pageants for little girls. The fact this mother obviously doesn't care much about doing the right thing for her kids and gives her daughter 'go go juice' with a ton of caffeine and sugar... disgusting and lazy if you ask me. Plus they already have Toddles and Tiaras, a spin-off on that is just silly as that show is already bad enough.

Without a doubt the bar has been lowered when it comes to TV. So many shows are a joke. TLC is a joke now which is sad as I used to like that channel. Now it's become a freak show. So unfortunate.
I love: Stan, Butters, Cartman, Sharon.

I ship: Stan/Cartman <3

Stan: MMOOMM!!
Sharon: What is it honey? (gasp!) My baby's killed again!
Haa, I love that line.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostWed Oct 10, 2012 4:10 pm Offline
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Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:43 pm18790I was over nah, but now I'm over heah.
deadpopstar wrote:
I Admit, I am ignorant with as to "uncensored" means Exactly

They pretty much just take the beeps off the cuss words.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostWed Oct 10, 2012 9:32 pm Offline
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Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:07 pm2
BRMBug,

That's what I thought; Thanks Much for letting me know fully/for sure!! :)
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostThu Oct 11, 2012 11:50 pm Offline
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Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:14 pm1425471 feet.
JVM wrote:
Finally rewatched and this is a mediocre episode - not terrible, but not great.

I already said what I like about it, but I also would like to say only one of the things I disliked: the entire core lesson about shamelessness and obesity is absolute bullsh*t.

Fat people are not this group of assholish, selfish people who intentionally stuff themselves and expect others to clean up after them, then get rascals and get even worse. I've had issues with fat people, but there's plenty of fat people who are really fine old people, and I feel this was a stupid attack because they made no allowance for exceptions to the rule - there was all negative portrayals and no positivity passed around at all.


Wow so many people getting caught up on the criticism of fat people and so quick to rally toward multiple healthy sizes. The episode was making fun of the extreme obesity that is never healthy. Even more so those who shamelessly cart themselves around rather than get real exercise and go on television in front of millions to promote the absolute worst of stereotypes of overweight southern redneck hicks. Fanewhoring has always been ridiculed by the show and this is just the one of the moment that has most intelligent people shaking their heads and going.... really. has it come to this dreck?

You can have a set of hips and a few extra pounds in the midsection and have no negative effects. You likely still walk through the grocery store, do normal things and don't make a fool of yourself on national television. That's a rather big distinction.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostSun Oct 14, 2012 6:56 pm Offline
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Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:11 am2
Lyon82 wrote:
JVM wrote:
Finally rewatched and this is a mediocre episode - not terrible, but not great.

I already said what I like about it, but I also would like to say only one of the things I disliked: the entire core lesson about shamelessness and obesity is absolute bullsh*t.

Fat people are not this group of assholish, selfish people who intentionally stuff themselves and expect others to clean up after them, then get rascals and get even worse. I've had issues with fat people, but there's plenty of fat people who are really fine old people, and I feel this was a stupid attack because they made no allowance for exceptions to the rule - there was all negative portrayals and no positivity passed around at all.


Wow so many people getting caught up on the criticism of fat people and so quick to rally toward multiple healthy sizes. The episode was making fun of the extreme obesity that is never healthy. Even more so those who shamelessly cart themselves around rather than get real exercise and go on television in front of millions to promote the absolute worst of stereotypes of overweight southern redneck hicks. Fanewhoring has always been ridiculed by the show and this is just the one of the moment that has most intelligent people shaking their heads and going.... really. has it come to this dreck?

You can have a set of hips and a few extra pounds in the midsection and have no negative effects. You likely still walk through the grocery store, do normal things and don't make a fool of yourself on national television. That's a rather big distinction.


I can see how the show might be attempting to draw attention toward extreme obesity, but it then contradicts its own message by making fun of something that could pose a serious health risk to other people. Anyway, based on the commentary it has generated I see it more as a general demeaning of fat people rather than saying "hey, sometimes obesity can lead to serious health issues and that isn't funny" even though that is a part of the episode's conclusion. But that conclusion doesn't balance out the imagery and messages for the rest of the episode. Throughout the entire episode people are being made out to be bad for being fat or being humiliated and made the butt of jokes just for being fat.

"Fat" has a very relative connotation which the show does not necessarily define narrowly enough for a concern about "extreme obesity." And many among the audience will not make that distinction themselves b/c there are pre-determined values regarding what it means to be fat.

Why laugh at someone on a rascal, push over their rascal, depict them as squealing like a pig if you are genuinely concerned about that person and their weight? That's why I'm not convinced that this episode is about the dangers of obesity when it's trying to get in cheap laughs at the expense of people like Alana and her family. Part of the show's definition of shamelessness is about being fat, regardless of what that means for a person's health status.

It's just using pre-existing judgements that will attract people who already police other people by particular standards such as body size, class, "appropriate behavior," etc.

I think some people would feel particularly threatened by Alana and her family b/c they tie their own personal values into how other people represent themselves. For example, women who call each other whores and sluts. They want to distinguish themselves from women who are deemed "less valuable" so that they can feel valuable and worthy in comparison. So they don't have to feel bad or look bad, generally to men. But that doesn't prevent them from being considered less valuable b/c the sys by which they are evaluated is not within their control.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostThu Nov 08, 2012 7:32 am Offline
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Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:47 am7
I’m surprised this hasn’t come up at all in this thread. Maybe it was discussed in another?

At the end, during Kyle’s “it was us” moment, who the hell were the two guys that walked past in tuxedos saying:

“It's like I cant explain it. I just suddenly feel like this isn't right.”
“I dont know why we were watched that garbage in the first place”

Who were they, and what was the joke here?

I’ve seen other forums thinking this was a self-depiction of Matt & Trey. That really couldn’t be further from the truth in my opinion. They looked nothing like them. The one that would be Matt had a wider face than the other, and to my knowledge, Matt has never been heavier than Trey. And he had a hairstyle that I don’t think I’ve ever seen Matt publicly have.

Also, if it were supposed to be them, why wouldn’t they just use their normal voices? For that matter Matt voiced the blond one, and Trey voiced the dark haired one. So it makes even less sense to say it was them. In short, they look and sound nothing like M&T.

Anyone care to enlighten me what this joke was?
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostThu Nov 08, 2012 7:25 pm Offline
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Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:14 pm1425471 feet.
Uh, pretty sure the guys in suits were just meant to be fodder in terms of people awakening to the bar being raised just a bit from the honey boo boo sketti wrestling crap.

The self depreciation was from Kyle. Keep in mind that Stan and Kyle are the stand ins for Matt and Trey and Kyle suggesting that "maybe it was us. A long time ago" was that they had a part in opening the floodgates.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:41 pm OfflineBoard Moderator
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Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:57 am17369Hollywood, CA
clubbinguy wrote:
“It's like I cant explain it. I just suddenly feel like this isn't right.”
“I dont know why we were watched that garbage in the first place”

They were just two of the many millions of people who suddenly came to their senses when, unbeknownst to them, James Cameron was raising the bar. You can see it in other realizations in that scene:

"Something's wrong. This... This is all wrong! Stop! Everyone! What are we doing?!"
"I don't know, I... How did I let myself go like this? What have I done??"
"When did we devolve into watching fat kids sketti wrestling?"
"What the hell is going on?"

And finally,
"I don't know. I think... we've been given another chance."
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Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostSat Nov 24, 2012 1:56 am Offline
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Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:09 am18canada
I had no idea who/what "Honney Bubu" was before watching this episode.
Re: *1609: Raising the Bar* Post-Air Discussion PostWed Nov 20, 2013 4:37 pm Offline
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Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:42 pm26
I really loved the character-development they had for Cartman through this season.. He actually admitted he's fat here, though still unable to handle it the right way. It just feels when watching the newest season that they completely chickened out with the way they were going and he just became exactly what he was before this as if none of the development ever happened. Shame, really.
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4. Woodland Critter Christmas
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Favorite Character: Kyle
Favorite Season: 4
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